"Don't be afraid of occupational psychodiagnostics. Don't be afraid to try it out for yourself. You will see how it can help you. Not only in recruitment, but also in the development of your people."
Are you hiring for a position for the first time, but have no idea what the ideal candidate should look like? Or are you worried that you'll get a great sale but then burn out in your position? Are you afraid that the company will take it away? And that you'll be really hungover? And repeating the whole cycle?
This hangover is avoidable. And it's only a few hundred bucks. What's that compared to the hundreds of thousands you'll pay headhunters to find You suck. And you're gonna keep doing it because there are fewer and fewer good people. So why not confirm it with your kids' allowance money, right?
This magic is called psychodiagnostics. And I invited a lady to the podcast who has devoted a good part of her professional life to psychodiagnostics. Marta Fabiánová, CEO of TCC online s.r.o. will tell you ...
🔸 How to start with the selection of a person for the company?
🔸 What are the parameters of a candidate?
🔸 When to include psychodiagnostics in the candidate selection process?
🔸 How seriously to take the results of psychodiagnostics?
🔸 What role will AI play in psychodiagnostics?
HOW TO MINIMIZE RECRUITMENT ERRORS USING PSYCHODIAGNOSTICS (INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT)
Guest introduction
Martin Hurych
Hello. I'm Martin Hurych and this is another Ignition. If you've been watching Ignition and you liked any of the episodes or ideas, I'm going to ask you to subscribe right now so you don't forget about it after this episode is over. That way, you won't miss any more of my guests and I'll sail more smoothly through the pitfalls of social media algorithms, allowing me to invite even more great guests like today's. Today we're going to look at people. Over the last couple of episodes, we've discussed here the expectations of owners and bosses about HR, we've discussed here how to build those expectations, and today we're going to look at how to meet them as well and minimize the risks from recruiting. Because the more sophisticated the plans we have, the more amateurish and emotional the selection ultimately becomes. To make sure that's not the case, I'm going to talk to Marta Fabianova today about how to do it right. Hello.
Marta Fabiánová
Hello. Thank you for inviting me.
Is Marta hygge? And what's the most Danish thing about Denmark?
Martin Hurych
Marta is the CEO of TCC online. Are you hygge?
Marta Fabiánová
I guess you can't say it like that, I wouldn't say that. I think everybody likes hygge in general, it's been a bit of a buzzword, so we're now wondering if it still has that nice vibe. It's kind of a bad thing now, but I love everything Danish and hygge is part of that and I dare say anyone who doesn't like hygge is bullshitting.
Martin Hurych
What is the most Danish thing, what is your favourite thing about Denmark?
Marta Fabiánová
I lived there for a while as part of my studies and we like to go back and I really liked the way they have set up the functioning of the company. They even explained it to me, the Danes, and they said that there's this social tenet and the most important premise is that no one is more important or more
than someone else. Of course, in our context it may resonate with a bygone era, but they really work very considerately, very partnerly and it's a very nice country overall, I love going back there. So that's what stuck with me there, that people will approach you on the street if they see you're a little bit lost. They also know how to enjoy life and have a beautiful appreciation for quality, design, Copenhagen is always growing and every time we go back we wonder what's new.
Martin Hurych
Usually when people fly to Denmark and come back and I ask them what they remember, it's the incinerator that you see when you land at the airport, the harbour, the opera, Tivoli and that's about it. Where do the Denmark experts recommend we visit beyond these must-sees?
Marta Fabiánová
It's quite simple. If you come to Copenhagen, the canal tour is a must, an hour-long affair, you sit in Nyhavn on any of those boats and even though some might say they skip these tourist attractions, this is really a must. I recommend going from the side, not the front of that Nyhavn because it's cheaper and it's less touristy. It will take you through exactly everything that's interesting in that Copenhagen in an hour, and then you can decide beautifully where to go next.
For my part, one should definitely not skip Christiania. Christiania is such a Danish rarity, where since the 70's a bunch of hippies have created a community in an absolutely incredible central beautiful location of the former barracks, which is a hugely lucrative piece of land. So you can imagine the pressures that are there to change that, but they're still there. They have their rules there, they vary how much there is and you can't buy any drugs like hashish or marijuana there, that's kind of the familiar face. But suddenly you're in a village that's kind of hippie, cultural, artistic, they have the best falafel and drømmekage, which is more like a kind of cake, which they have excellent. So we always went back there, not because of the drugs, but it's just a great vibe and it's such an interesting phenomenon. Danes are often divided between those who want to defend Christiania at all costs and those who wonder why a bunch of hippies should have some sort of privilege over an amazing place. Then of course it's worth going anywhere outside of Copenhagen, that coastline is gorgeous and overall I recommend not just looking out of the plane when you land on that Amager, but exploring more of that Copenhagen.
How did Marta get into TCC online?
Martin Hurych
How did Marta get into TCC online?
Marta Fabiánová
I guess it's been with me all my life, the people around me are my defining factors and most of those opportunities come through people. When I was considering where to go after college, I was actually practically already set on going somewhere else where I had won a competition. But my friend, my college roommate, told me that they needed help with a project because a lot of people were also just going somewhere to travel and I knew how to work with the data, I knew how to interpret it. So she asked me if it would make sense for me to do some collaboration, and it ended up being so interesting that I said I would do a complete dodge and not take the offer and take the opportunity to work for TCC here. So that's how I dove in, which was also kind of an interesting leap because we were doing dozens, hundreds of assessment and development centers there and we were also recruiting colleagues through that method. By sneaking in through a project and data, I never actually went through the assessment centre and I'm kind of the only one who hasn't experienced the method myself.
How to start with the selection of a person for the company?
Martin Hurych
I'll admit to you that when I looked at your linkedin profile this morning, I couldn't understand why you're a heavy metal fan because you have AC/DC on there. It took me a while to figure out what the abbreviations meant. Getting back to the topic today, I'm going to repeat something I see a lot. We're going to talk about salespeople, but I'll preface that what we might apply to salespeople quite often here applies to any position in a company. Jarda Salva was here the other day and we were talking about how to actually define the requirements, the expectations of the position, and how to tell yourself who you're looking for in the first place, because a lot of companies get that wrong as well. I'd like to follow up on that and I'd like to talk about how to use those assumptions to make a little bit more sophisticated selection of who really fits the position from the candidates that I have. What I see is that you take somebody who is the best seller, but they don't necessarily fit the position. So when we discuss this journey, where should we start as business owners or bosses?
Marta Fabiánová
It's always good to start by answering the question of who we're looking for and why, what defines the position, being as specific as possible about what that person's day will look like, how we want them to function. It's great if we already have that experience of who works great, what is typical for those people maybe, or if we know that someone didn't fit the position, what could have been the reason. We need to be clear about what are the parameters of who is going to work great not only in that position but also in our company, what is typical for us, if there is a significant cultural thing.
Then we can answer it well with B and what all tools we can use to check it, because the gut feeling is also important. Of course, the information from your CV, from LinkedIn, from networking, when you do a case study, which is all that input, is important, but then exactly often things that are hard to read somewhere. It's hard for a person to tell you about themselves, not necessarily because they want to sell themselves and keep it from you, but sometimes they don't even know that that's actually their quality because they think that's normal. I mean, everybody has a structure to the things that they do, and it doesn't have to be that way at all.
That's exactly where one of those pieces to the puzzle can be a great help with some diagnostic method. We deal with occupational psychology, we don't go into that clinic at all, so it can give you a great answer to some of the motivations, aptitudes, skills. It will give you that necessary piece to the puzzle if you find out that so far there have always been perfect candidates according to the CV, you've made a great deal, but then maybe their motivation got affected or they found out that something didn't fit. If we can map those factors in the psychodiagnostic, it's a great help because you don't get burned.
What parameters to define for a candidate?
Martin Hurych
In order to do psychodiagnostics, I suspect I'll have to define much more of what I expect from that person than going to 20 meetings a week, filling out a CRM and selling something. So what do we technicians, who are pretty hard on the soft stuff a lot of the time, look for to define?
Marta Fabiánová
Typically, you can define things like personality traits and equipment. If it's a completely unfamiliar topic to you, then of course the easiest thing to do is to tell us that you don't know, you can't choose from those methods, or you're not sure you can scale well with the right candidate. We can help you with that, of course. We can ask you, as I just said, exactly what it's going to look like, how the person is going to get the assignment, whether they're going to have some great autonomous scope or whether they're going to be more of an enforcer. Those are things that we know that those methods can map out for us, so that's why we're asking those questions, if that's something that makes sense to you. So if you don't know at all, the best thing to do is obviously to get in touch and ask. We'll tell you if you've got the methods right and to maybe keep an eye out for some scales that are exactly what you're saying. We can even get right down to the nitty gritty of where we would optimally like to have those candidates for your exact merchant, because it may not be the same for corporate merchants and retail merchants. We'll peg it out for you already in the system where it should optimally be and then you don't need us to do it again. Because the system will tell you straight away that for this candidate, their profile matches 100% of what you've said or only 40% and you look at where they're coming out. Then you can focus more on why it doesn't match somewhere. There's often those things where if you're interviewing for an hour, you're going to have a hard time asking about 20 different aspects. Even the premise says that if you have a well- constructed BEI, Behavioral Event Interview, and you want to ask about specific situations, how the person maybe handled something, you need to pick one or two topics where you go in depth. Because the person has a quick answer ready, but you're interested in the details.Thanks to the psychodiagnosis, you might know that there are two areas where you have question marks, otherwise the match is perfect, so you ask about it and decide accordingly. If you didn't know yourself how to piece together what exactly in those methods where to measure, we can help you with that, but that's why the system is already preset. The library there is quite robust and it already automatically tells you if you're looking for a creative or an accountant, so a matching profile can be a great match for one position and be very risky for another. The system already guides you in that and if you want to uniquely set it up for a position,
which you know is very specific, so we can customize it for you. This is our advantage, that we don't just push a predefined solution.
How much of a transparent and predictable animal is man?
Martin Hurych
You're spouting off a bunch of graphs, but before we get to them, what you're saying here led me to ask. How much of a transparent animal is man? Since you already know what an accountant is supposed to look like, we're pretty much transparent animals, we behave very similarly in those positions, we respond predictably to those questions because otherwise the diagnosis would be meaningless. To remove that I'm going to sell myself to you and go underneath that skin, underneath that skin I increasingly feel like we're really transparent animals. I sometimes feel that I often stand completely naked in front of people like you, because the things that have not yet been expressed, you see anyway.
Marta Fabiánová
It's a phenomenon that all psychologists, which I'm not, I'm a sociologist by training, have to deal with this, that the vast majority of people tell them this. They're scared of them right away, that they see right into them, that they just say something and they know right away how they should and shouldn't. That's such a myth because in the same way doctors don't like to consult you all weekend because your knee hurts here, so even those psychologists don't feel the need to keep digging and researching.
But of course, thanks to those tools, we have insight into the people, the teams, the company, because that's our essence. Whether it's psychodiagnostics or those feedback tools, the core of it is to know more about that person, that team, that company as a whole. Obviously, we have a head start there at that point, but that's why it's the value-add. That's why our clients use it, because if they knew everything from a resume or from an interview, it wouldn't give them that added value. But I don't think there should be any fear of that, on the contrary, that's our mission to untangle that work psychology as well. We just say we don't do clinics, you won't learn any pathologies with us. On the contrary, it's really about those personality traits, it's about some skills, and that helps not only to increase self-concept, but maybe to put the teams together well, and that transparency is very important for us. We very much also encourage our clients to share those outputs with just those candidates because there's nothing there that should be hurtful or challenged in any way. On the other hand, it adds tremendously to the reputation when you tell that person in that recruitment process that you're going to ask them to fill out a set of some questionnaires and tests and at the end of it, you're going to give them those outputs
share. So even if you don't talk to the candidate afterwards, at least they will learn something and it will give them some value. It adds tremendously to the reputation and also to the confidence in the tools, that it's not the mystery, that I'm not going to strip completely naked there, and on the contrary, it can help a lot with that insight.
So our mission is just to untangle it, not to make a big deal out of it, on the contrary, that was actually at the beginning of the need for TCC online in the first place. We have sometimes experienced situations where it was shrouded in mystery what one could learn about the person from one drawing, but it must be said that projective methods do not belong to occupational psychology at
all. Our mission is that to make it more accurate, transparent and as helpful as possible for end users, not just the clients who pay for it.
When to include psychodiagnostics in the candidate selection process?
Martin Hurych
You said a moment ago, we're going to ask you a question at some point. At what point, when does this have a place in the recruitment process?
Marta Fabiánová
It has to be said that this has a place not only in recruitment but also afterwards in aftercare or development. But if we just focus on the recruitment, there are different ways to do it. There are some clients who use psychodiagnostics right away, almost as a first response to a resume, and others who phase it in gradually until maybe the most final round. So the very typical model is that in that selection process, if I have some connection through the resume first, the initial information, then maybe we'll call the candidate. If we have some tools for that, UniCredit bank even has a recruitment chatbot for that, then we get some initial information there to see if there is any match at all. Then typically before that in-person meeting, there's a moment where we want as much information as possible to make the most of that in-person meeting. Usually between some of that phone screening and then that in-person meeting, which is maybe for that hour, that's typically where the testing comes in. But sometimes it gets so bloated that we just want some very basic information and then maybe for some of the final two or three candidates, something else, because they're all great candidates on those plates already. So we consider who has even better equipment for that position or company. So typically it's between some initial screening and a meeting and we can very well get that information out of that meeting.
How seriously to take the results of psychodiagnostics?
Martin Hurych
I have the results in my hand, what to do next? How seriously to take them or not to take them and what can I potentially see in those results?
Marta Fabiánová
We always say that we neither overestimate nor underestimate psychodiagnostics. It's valid, it has validity, but it's also not the only method that you would say is the alpha omega and nothing
that's all you need to know about the man. On the contrary, it's one of those pieces of the puzzle, and it also has its own validity and validity. Even though it is constructed to eliminate some bias, if a person decides to fill it in as their alter ego, it may come out nonsense. So it is one method, but it is a very valid, useful one.
If I've already filled it out, typically instantly, because those online tools will allow for instant insight into those results, that's exactly what I'll look at. If I even have a matching feature in there, I can see right away where the candidate resonates with me or completely goes outside of what we've set up and I can prepare maybe some topics to ask more questions about. I ask about how he's doing with a particular discipline, for example, how he's doing, how he's failing, when was the last time he failed, what did he learn from that. There may already be, in short, a whole series of questions that go after some specific points that I can see shining through. There may be some dedicated scales in there as well, because typically those scales are followed by several methods and it's not possible to sit down and go scale by scale. Usually we're more concerned with the grasp of that person, what's typical of that person, so it's going to alert us to those very distinct values. That distinctiveness typically means that if I'm a really strong extrovert, it can mean that I'm very good at networking. I'm very quick to find my way around a new group, but my typical disadvantage can be that I don't listen, I don't let people talk me down. There, I can then lose key opportunities and any of that niche range can lead us to what might be great equipment for that person and whether they might know about those risks and have treated them in some way. So we need to pay attention to those distinctive values because they are probably something that is really typical of that person. Often the information doesn't surprise the person because they know themselves, but then there are interesting moments where there is that aha moment where the person didn't know that they were superior to others.
What to trust most - CV, psychodiagnosis or interview?
Martin Hurych
If I have a small company and I am hiring for some positions for the very first time in the company, should I trust moreresume, diagnostic or interview?
Marta Fabiánová
I'm now trying to remember in my head the scores of how valid the different methods are. Every study will tell you that the combination of those methods is the most reliable anyway, that's why the different assessment centres were created, because they combined the methods and that has the highest reliability. On the other hand, the references have the lowest reliability, which can be from Šumava to Tatra Mountains, because maybe the person is not a fan and now he is going to salt it to the candidate, or vice versa. This is a great frustration, I have to say that I have experienced it myself, when I read the letter I felt sorry for the manager that he had to let such a person go because of the reorganization and then twice the lady didn't come for an interview.
Those questionnaires and tests are also very high and of course they have to be well constructed, they have to be well targeted. I preach water and I drink water because I say that really our methods work great, but I always say that it is part of a set and I wouldn't dare to say that a CV is not relevant. It is, because if you're looking for a person who has very unique know-how, that's absolutely key
the person's equipment, and we'll fine-tune those social skills, close both eyes. There, of course, the experience is crucial and somewhere else it may be irrelevant. I think one of our developers had a completely different experience, he wasn't in IT at all, he didn't even go to school and he's actually quite brilliant, he makes beautiful code. That's where the resume would lead us astray.
It also works very well if you give a case study, a specific task and see how the person handled it. Then there are also exactly positions where you know that it's really a dealbreaker, if the person can get along with other people. It almost doesn't matter if he's got that experience or not, but if he's going to germinate the team or bring some toxicity to your team, that's just the end of it. So you really want to look a lot at like personality traits, work style, how they handle the workload and stress. Those are the things that no one will write on your CV, so that's where the psychodiagnostics can be very key.
What to expect from team psychodiagnostics?
Martin Hurych
You've named the team here several times. My experience is that wherever we've done team diagnostics, because of course I don't do these things myself, it's normally changed that company in a matter of hours. These people started making fun of each other, who's what and how they have to. So what can realistically be expected from team diagnostics? For example, when I have a team, should I be planting people based more on who's missing from the team, or should I go more along the lines that they have some competencies so I close both eyes and build the team around them?
Marta Fabiánová
That's the million dollar question again, the answer is not that simple and we've addressed it many times. I even remember someone asking us if it makes sense to develop weaknesses or strengths. I
I said there are these nice slogans, develop your strengths because then you will be really excellent and don't worry about what you are doing wrong. I said that's great because there's something I'm totally totally doing wrong, but I'm not going to worry about it at all and I'm just going to keep doing what I'm already good at. It's actually both, to develop the great things, but to watch the reserves, of course, and that's where the answer to this question is going.
When we were sitting with the IT team managers, they had beautifully mapped profiles of their teams, even there it was nice to see that external collaborators are a bit different in profile than internal ones. That's another thing, that there are sometimes criteria that need to be taken into account. Now, we were trying to get the essence of that, who to recruit to the team next, whether it was someone who was downright missing or someone who would fit in nicely. When we asked what was the key to the position, it was obvious that it had to be someone who was mainly collaborative. He has to be able to be very quick to tackle those tasks, he's going to be somehow finishing them and he's going to be kind of self-disciplined about it.
But now it turned out that in some ways that profile already fit so nicely with the team, that they were really people who were more focused on cooperation, not wolfmen who needed to dominate everything and everyone. You could see that there was a nice fit with the team. One scale, though, addressed whether these people were more in fashion opening or closing, whether they are more comfortable with the start of these projects and have a lot of energy in inventing, or whether they are tightening, structured and are very happy when it is closed. There you could see that the team was very much in that opening mode and only the manager was poor himself in that tightening mode. When we asked him about it, he said that it took him an awful lot of energy, he was on his own, he didn't enjoy it himself, rather he forced himself into it over time. He had to make sure that things really had that structure, had those deadlines, he had to keep reminding and it was getting really annoying. So, we've nicely defined that the person would fit in with the team, but that just if there was someone who had a real need for that structure and tightening up, that would help him tremendously.
That's exactly how it is, when we have a team of salespeople, you can see that it's really typical for them to be groundbreaking, to be very optimistic, to not be discouraged by failure. There's certainly no point in diluting it with somebody who's more risk-oriented and will go to those people and say they might buy it, but there's some downside to that. There, instead, you keep what makes the good traders good traders. Then if you see that it would be nice to put somebody in there who maybe isn't as competitive, is more of a team player, then focus on some quality that we want to work on or add. So you need to find the essence of what is the success and what is missing and keep what works there, don't dilute the team just to have a little bit of everything, then it might not work at all.
Martin Hurych
That's awesome, because I've seen a couple of times where these people wanted to water it down so they could talk to the other side adequately. I'll admit, I've used a lot of coloring books so far, so they missed
someone who can talk to green, so they took green, but then it happened that green didn't really know how to do business.
Marta Fabiánová
We are quite opposed to the simplification into, for example, colours, because it turns out that the equipment of that person is very plastic and there are dozens of scales. Now you make it four colours and that is very simplistic. Then in those team profiles we see that there are a lot of scales, somewhere we stick it and somewhere we need to tweak it. Then it's more about some training so that those people can work well with somebody who has a different dynamic, and shamefully force themselves into that silence a little bit. It's better than hiring someone who's anxious about having to answer the phone.
What is the adoption of psychodiagnostics among SME firms?
Martin Hurych
In your experience, what is the adoption of these methods among medium and small companies? I think we can agree that at the large company level it has been the standard for a long time. What about the small and medium ones?
Marta Fabiánová
He's figuring it out, too. Of course, Covid was the turning point there, too, because he suddenly threw everything online and suddenly nobody doubted that it was possible. Until then, there were such cautious attitudes about it. Moreover, those professionals who take care of people in those big companies migrate in various ways and often migrate from those big corporations to a small company or a startup. They bring that know-how and they bring that experience with them, so I think that awareness is spreading everywhere. We even often say you can use those tools from a one-man company because there's no need to implement something robustly. We have big players who have implemented our solution in their ATS to make it easier for them, but you can easily do it much easier. I think it's more about that education, which is also one of our big missions, to untangle and bring that work psychology to managers, to bosses of companies, even if they are small. Even if the recruitment is once every two years, it is all the more worthwhile not to underestimate it and not to try to suddenly become an expert in recruitment. So I think it's definitely trickling down to all sizes of companies, and we're seeing that in our customers. We're very proud of the different key players in the market, we have the big banks, the operators, the insurance companies, the technology companies, but we've got a lot of the medium-sized companies and the tiny ones as well. We also have a lot of independent coaches who in turn help their clients with recruitment and want to add to their know-how.
How much does it cost to screen one candidate?
Martin Hurych
This is actually positive news for those who may not have caught on to this trend yet. Can we put a price level on screening one candidate for a sales position?
Marta Fabiánová
I'm going to say this in general terms, because each method has a price tag, but we try to make sure that you always put them together in a logical package. To give you an idea, each method can take 10, 15 minutes, and so that we don't force you into having to test the CFO candidate and the accountant candidate with the exact same methods, you can always put together a different package. Of course, the package has a price to make it more profitable, but if I say it in general terms, around CZK 1,000 you can already test a candidate solidly. It might be 900, it might be 1,200, but it's not going to be more than 1,200 or 1,300 because we'll cap the price there. Now consider that you're recruiting that person, when that recruitment can drag on, you can get burned by the huge amount of money that the person is actually investing. So these are actually pennies that when you add on that pile of what that recruitment is costing you, you're getting a huge value added there. We want it to be easily scalable as well, so that those companies say they're recruiting 10 people a year, they're recruiting a thousand people a year, they can have some collaborative formats because it's better for them to lock in some budget.
What can 360° feedback be used for?
Martin Hurych
Now I may try to spin your services in a slightly innovative way and somewhere else. Because you don't just do diagnostics, you do feedback, you do employee surveys and so on. Can any of the methods be applied to customers, for example?
Marta Fabiánová
I'm sure it can be used, although it's not our field of expertise. We don't do the kind of market research that you would do to reach out to potential customers to see how they have, don't have or how they rate your product. We really target it for use internally towards employees, but of course our clients often ask those external partners and clients for that feedback. Typically you can imagine when there's 360 feedback, it's one of the tools to get feedbacks. Typically you get one-on- one feedback, that's absolutely the brand ideal, but we rarely get to that and often you need to collect feedback from the people you actually work with. That's what the 360° feedback is for and it's quite common there that we want to ask a set of questions, for example from clients, about how good they are working with us, whether the communication is partnering and what needs to be improved. So that's where we can also ask,
but it's all more to do with our internal staff. Theoretically, of course, you can bend the tool to send it out to your clients and ask them whatever you need and that's no problem at all. It's just a tool that you ask with, so you can infuse it with whatever content you want. We don't tell the client they have to use our question set because we need that for our benchmarks. We're obviously happy for you to come out of our set because then we have those robust benchmarks, but make whatever changes you need to make there. Like if you just know what you want to ask but you don't know if you can quite ask it handy, we'll translate that into some questions that are handy.
What is the future of psychodiagnostics?
Martin Hurych
What is the future of psychodiagnostics?
Marta Fabiánová
Whenever we think about it, we always tell ourselves that human nature hasn't changed much in a thousand years, even though things around us change, products change, technology changes, but at the core we are still the same people.
You still have some fears, you have some motivations, you have some assumptions, and the psychodiagnosis will be relevant in the future anyway. The human condition is still there, it's not going to suddenly be dramatically overwhelmed by some new technological feat. Other factors will of course be connected to it in various ways, such as those technological conveniences. The psychodiagnostics will make it easier to make, for example, some kind of summary result, because now you can map a lot of areas, but then you still need the human factor to put it together into some kind of reasonable conclusion. All these technologies will do all that, maybe faster, more efficiently, maybe give you a better answer if a book by this author on time management is better written for you.It will certainly move into various related recommendations, measures and so on, but the human psyche, the psychodiagnostics, still has a great deal of merit and will continue to have merit.
What role will AI play in psychodiagnostics?
Martin Hurych
I was aiming it there if you're worried about your own job, because there's already a company on the market at the moment, I'm sure you're familiar with it, that does some video call based diagnostics. When do I sit down in front of a camera and the AI tells me whether or not I'm qualified for the position?
Marta Fabiánová
When we talk to psychologists, HR professionals and the like, there is a great wariness of letting all this technology into the very core. Because they can have some interesting results to some extent or they work with some degree of reliability, but you can see that when it comes to the essence of the person, those professionals are very cautious there. The pretty, colorful, interesting high-tech solutions, the toys look interesting, but unless they have absolute certainty there that the core is still based on those really valid principles and research and studies, it's kind of poofy. They don't like to put that AI in there because it's still hallucinating, there's still a lot of uncertainty. So I don't think it's going to replace us in that regard because AI can't completely squeeze out the human factor. But it's hard to say what technology will be here in 10 years. We could have had this conversation here 10 years ago and we would have been completely shocked at what it is today. But I certainly don't think anybody is worried, if they're working with humans, about being replaced by AI, because probably anybody who calls somewhere on a client line and a chatbot talks to them is going to experience exactly what that moment is like. He'll tell you all this information, but it's desperate. When you have a problem and now he's just going on and on about it, you get really frustrated and that's exactly what it is. You need the human factor in there anyway, which works well with the methods. They're still tools and the moment you take out the human factor completely, then of course it becomes more generic.
Summary
Martin Hurych
So I'll wish that in 10 years, it won't be a cold dog snout talking to me, but Martha again. If there were 3 to 5 sentences left in this podcast, what would they be?
Marta Fabiánová
The first one would be, thanks for inviting me, that's for sure. Don't be afraid of occupational psychodiagnostics, feel free to try it out for yourself, because those quality contractors will let you. At least then you can tell if it makes sense to you or not. Don't be afraid to try it. If it's a well-built method and it's a good supplier, you won't go wrong and it will give you a huge added value, not only in that recruitment. That job psychodiagnostic or whatever helps with development afterwards as well.Then when you go to stress management training, so that you know what your topics are, you can nicely do like a stress management questionnaire. Knowing something, measuring it, helps you move on, not having that blind spot.
Martin Hurych
I would almost say that if someone wants me to answer a question, I guess they care about me.
Marta Fabiánová
Of course, it's back to asking and asking. Someone asks you a question and you can already see them thinking about the next question and someone asks you a question and you can see that they are totally immersed in the subject with you. The fact that someone is asking a question definitely makes it feel more important, but I would still put the B in there, be authentic and get that you mean it. Don't be afraid to share those results with that person, that maybe you'll even look at it with them, that it's nothing mysterious. On the contrary, it opens up discussion, it visualizes things that are often hard to visualize. Even the people in that team then complement each other well when they see who is good at what. Let's not be afraid of it, it helps to visualize and make clear the sometimes hard to grasp and measure things about collaboration, communication and it really helps then to work better.
Martin Hurych
Thank you for being here and I wish you every success in developing these tools to our satisfaction.
Marta Fabiánová
Thank you so much for inviting me. That's a nice wish, we'll try and certainly do our best to get better and keep pushing the development forward, so maybe in a few years we'll really be amazed at what it can already do.
Martin Hurych
If at this point you've sworn off bringing another person into the company without asking them a few questions and seeing a few charts about them before you hire them, we've done our job well. In that case, I'll repeat my initial request, subscribe right now, like or forward this episode to a friend, a co-worker, somebody else that you think could help them. You'll make us happy, plus you'll be helping to put Zahzh in front of more eyes. Check out www.martinhurych.com/zazeh, where at this point there's already a bonus below this episode and I have nothing to do but cross my fingers and wish you success, thanks.
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